Thus I will describe myself as a radical conservative liberal. Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900, Gothenburg as the capital of a Scandinavian Union, Most Fenno-Swede dominated Finland possible. This is exactly what would happen in the Franco-German war, as France had become overstretched, and was now ruled by the much less capable Napoleon III. During all this, the USA gobbled up Spanish Mexico, Florida and California with no one standing in the way. Sweden and Austria try wooing Prussia, but to no avail. Russia's westernization would be hindered greatly. The Swedes need defensible and after the Great Northern War will want defensible. "länge leve kungen"!! Italy is united by President Garibaldi without the threat of austrian intervention and with German/British support. The war that put Sweden out of power. Your goal is to make a major power out of the region. Charles is still alive, though old and incapable of leading armies himself. How would the city change? Jagiellons expand to the north instead of south. Nordics had very few outward projection, sans the Artic Islands. The war that put Sweden out of power. Wars but I do agree that a coup by some loyalists of the old regime would make sense. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. After Maximilian's death, Mexico broke into civil war and Mexico in 1936 is a (very fragile) democracy. And they probably would have been competing with the British as the world's strongest naval power during the Victorian era, putting differences aside and working together to stop France during a Franco-Germanic WW1. The "großdeutsche Lösung" is enacted, including Pommerania, which is annexed from Sweden. Germany would order France to stop oppressing germans, France would deny the allegation but keep sending in troops and the germans would then move in their own. Seems somewhat realistic, but then again, actual history would've been unpredictable from that point, just because of all the factors at play. King Gustav III of Sweden was sitting quietly in his desk as he surveyed the reports of his kingdom. The preferred state of the Baltic for both powers would be a divided but peaceful Baltic where no state is powerful enough to strangle their trade or weak enough to invite war. In this timeline, Sweden won the Great Northern War (in the early 1700s against Russia, Denmark, and the PLC). Next, they would be in range of attacking England by sea but they wouldn’t do that yet because, if you attack the greatest naval power in the world you probably won’t be successful.The British, navy would have taken a hit and the Swedes would have seized the opportunity and fought, them at sea, possibly conquering England. At this point Austria rejoins the war and Poland Lithuania switches back to the coalition. The Netherlands having been occupied, the cape colony became independent and keeps expanding northwards. It was Sweden’s Baltic empire focused along the Gulf of Finland that also gave it more power. Due to this embarrassing defeat, Peter the Great and his policy of modernization were looked down on, and Russia never really modernized and focused on expansion in the far east instead of in Europe. They would never ally the Russians due to their immediate closeness and would have angsty relationship with the Central Powers due to the claims on Prussian lands and all the resentment and bitterness with the German speaking world, maybe having wars between them every 20 years or so. The 1830 revolution in France still happens and Louis Philippe is placed on the throne. Warfare: Renaissance to revolution (1492-1792), Cambridge, 1996 Sweden Defeats Peter the Great In 1697, Sweden acquired a new monarch: a 15-year-old who took the name Charles XII. Maps: The New Cambridge Modern History Atlas, Cambridge, 1970 Cambridge Illustrated Atlas. 56 year old King Gustaf The Fifth of Sweden was reading a novel beside the homely fire in his room whilst sipping a cup of tea. This forced me to NERF them a lot, because the combined revolutionary power seemed to derail the scenario a bit. The alliances are not at all the same, there is no "Central Powers" or "Anglo-French". Now, contemporary sources claim the Swedish aim was the conquest of Novgorod, but that is obviously... Prologue Sweden would probably have territories in Mexico and present day Canada. Russia would never have the power, it would ever have again and Russia would never have the military might compared to before, the war which would lead to it not entering many wars and possibly the Soviet Union would, never have been established since the Russo-Japanese war wouldn’t have occurred, which led, Back to Sweden. He did like to read and the old Swedish classics depicting his predecessors military tactics were... After deposing Augustus and placing Stanislaus on the Polish throne, Charles veered north to retake Neva where Tsar Peter had created a Fortress which would later be known as St. Petersburg. Yeah, with a PoD this early Vicky 2 would be better. What if the Swedish Empire accepted Peter's first peace negotiation in which St. Petersburg is ceded to Russia but all other Swedish holdings remain? He knew he was extremely unpopular with the political elements of his Kingdom and was frustrated because of it. There is no absolute way in which Sweden can ever be a Great Power along the same level as Britain and France, and even if it could it would not last long. Old Socialist/Marxist: Believes in "traditional" Marxist socialism. It is a possibility especially if Sweden unifies with Norway. S weden, Russia and the Great Northern War. The war that put Russia in the. Let's say that when Gustaf Adolf IV abdicates the throne, the coup makers agree to let his son, popularly known as Gustav, Prince of Vasa to become King after his abdication, what kind of butterflies will come? They join the war on the Anglo-French side, taking all of Pomerania as well as Silesia. The British and Dutch would also remain very leery of a powerful Sweden in the Baltic. Italy would be divided into Tuscany, The Papal State, Sardinia-Piedmont, Lombardy-Venetia, and the Two Sicilies. The first treaty, the treaty of Hamburg, would discuss Denmark. Sweden was a relatively poor country then and she didn´t have a lot of manpower compared to countries like Russia or Poland. Since the Swedes had been conquering territories lately, Napoleon is, Next, we’re probably at WWI right now and Austria-Hungary has risen to power, but Germany, has been taken over by the Swedes and Russia isn’t a power any more. All this can happen during the timeframe of the Great Northern war since it almost happened in OTL absent of Charles XII's bad luck. They would be as neutral as today, having to fight the influence of the other three surrounding powers: Anglo-French, Central Powers, and Mother Russia. Discord Server: https://discord.gg/tuWAeV4. Sep 2011 6,891. Now you have two main superpowers, in Europe but the thing is, he wouldn’t have invaded Russia because it would already be in, control of the Swedes. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Pommerania and Livonia change hands multiple times, while Denmark becomes too fortified to be invaded. Savoy is culturally, ethnically, and linguistically MUCH closer to France than Italy, you gotta realize that they have a whole mountain range in between them, and that's partly why the king of Sardinia was like "sure whatev" when France asked for it in return for an alliance against Austria. Denmark-Norway seems to be fine initially but Norwegians aren't happy with their involvement in the war for no gain. That wouldnt change in either scenario, so your argument is moot. There's no realistic way for Italy to administrate savoy, without modern technology. Chapter 1 I don't see Sweden dominating the Baltic as a feasible outcome on the long term. I intend to improve this timeline and flesh it out more, so I hope you appreciate it. Sweden and Poland jockeying for influence over the region never helped. a post war history of the Scandinavian Union, Gustav of Vasa become King Gustav V of Sweden. New Socialist: Believes in a form of moderate, democratic, socialism, a mix between the ideas of Luxemburg, Lenin, and De Leon. GNW but also it would have effected Norway. The storm whipped up the winds and they came crashing down upon them. Would any foreign powers support it... Longboats and Norsemen: A Vinland TL But there is. This resulted in Great Britain declaring war on Sweden in 1717. Now there are countless threads asking what if sweden won. I like it. Thus Austria is weaker around the mid of the century. Since Austria-Hungary never formed, and the Hungarians would not want to be that close to such a large unified Germany, Franz Ferdinand was never assassinated. Both rise up in 1776. I agree about germany. The map is pretty confusing, I'd like to know more about what happened over there. These question would determine what would change not just in a GNW-peace, but also the dynamic of Sweden and Denmark in the future. Thus the 1848 revolution happens as well, also sweeping across Europe. Swedish forces crush the Russians at Poltava. The French and British attempt multiple naval invasions into the Baltic, as well as the norwegian coast, but they can never get a foothold and getting into the baltic proves treacherous to get into, costing the overzealous British the majority of the fleet, while the Prussian navy is non-existent after having been landlocked for the last 50ish years. Yet the expedition crawls forward. The second treaty, the treaty of Belgrade, would discuss the Ottomans. They would be as neutral as today, having to fight the influence of the other three surrounding powers: Anglo-French, Central Powers, and Mother Russia. What if the Swedes had won the Great Northern War? The British decision to support Sweden's enemies in 1717 was intended to secure the new King George's Hanoverian interests in a North Sea port, but their natural opposition to any single power controlling all of the Baltic trade and the resulting potential stranglehold was historically a contributing factor in the decision to pursue an early peace with Sweden and pressure the Russians to prevent their total victory. A member of the Mainland Entente (after WWI, the Entente split between the German-aligned side and the English-aligned side), Very overstretched, needs to centralize and put down independence movements (especially the Danish one under Roman von Ungern-Sternberg). And most importantly, how would this effect European history? Jun 12, 2019 #2 Spain and Italy would have to remove their emperors/kings and convert to republics. In a daring manover Charles the 13th (yes, I choose the Swedes to be very creative in naming their monarchs) lands his elite Carolean troops behind the enemy lines and cuts them off. Other than that, I like the scenario. As Peter was quite determined to get a Baltic port and would always win a war of attrition, it would probably require his death soon after Narva for Sweden to win the war. Poland-Lithuania becomes quasi independent under British and French "supervision". Ill be happy to play it. They would be re-annexed into the Swedish Empire.
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